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 POLL -Black Metal re-edit
 
 9/17/2007 4:49:24 PM
BillZebub
219 posts
4th


POLL -Black Metal re-edit
Please participate in this poll whether or not you have seen the first edit of my black metal documentary.

These are some of the bands that were in the first edit.  I am re-shooting most of the bands (in their native countries).

The poll questions are, "Do you think that any of these bands should be EXLCLUDED from the new edit, and if som WHY?"  I also want to know "Do you feel strongly that any of these bands MUST be included in the new edit?"

I didn't want to just do a yes/no poll.  I want to know why you feel the way you do.

Primordial
Venom
Grom
Dark Funeral
Celtic Frost
Gloomy Grim
Arkhon Infaustus
Mortiis
King Diamond
Enslaved

Sodom
Destruction
Possessed

Of course there are bands that I did not list because they are 100% going to be in the new one, like Gorgoroth and Immortal.  There are also going to be at least 10 new bands - but I cannot identify them yet.
 9/17/2007 5:39:47 PM
DeadAlive
134 posts
5th


Re: POLL -Black Metal re-edit
I personally don't think Venom whould be in it, because they're not black metal, and I don't buy into that crap that they were part of the "first generation of black metal". Whatever, though, Cronos is still an interesting guy and would make for a fun interview to see.

When you say Mortiis, you mean the individual himself, not other members from his band, right? Mortiis would be extremely awesome and is a very important figure in Black Metal (what with his short stint in Emperor and all), so that would be cool. But if it's just other members of Mortiis' band, I don't see the point as they are an industrial band. But I assume you mean Mortiis the man himself.

I love Sodom to death, but I don't know if I would consider them amiable with black metal.

I haven't seen the original cut, so I might check that out soon and give additional feedback.
 9/18/2007 6:06:15 PM
Jewsef Mengele
105 posts
5th


Re: POLL -Black Metal re-edit

      

That’s a good list of bands, because they all have a different view of what Black Metal is and should be. With the list you have now Black Metal can be examined from all sorts of different angles. I’d say definitely keep Grom just so you can cover NSBM. As for Venom, Celtic Frost and King Diamond, keep them as well. I don’t think they ‘re Black Metal but they were an important influence on the bands that started the genre as we know it today and it’s cool to hear their thoughts on the music and lifestyle of their younger counterparts.

I guess I understand why Sodom is in there, I know some Black Metal bands hail them as an influence. But I don’t really get how Destruction made the list. I’m probably wrong as you must have put them there for a reason , but isn’t Destruction straight Thrash? Wouldn’t that be like putting Sadus in the documentary? I mean, I’m sure a lot of the guys that first started playing Death Metal listened to NWOBHM albums but I wouldn’t put Judas Priest or Iron Maiden in a Death Metal documentary.

It can all be summed up in this wicked good Haiku I wrote.

All bands listed are                                                                                                                                             Relevant to Black Metal                                                                                                                                         Except Destruction
 9/18/2007 10:18:49 PM
BillZebub
219 posts
4th


Re: POLL -Black Metal re-edit
Great feedback!

The presence of Destruction was at the recommendation of one of the Norwegians (as was also the presence of Sodom).  I personally do not see the significance of these bands.

I view the formation of black metal as stemming from Bathory and perhaps Hellhammer.  But then, I am not from that scene.  I dimly recall speaking about this with Fenriz but I didn't go too deeply into it because I was more into goofing, but of course I can't do that for the documentary.  I'm making this documentary as an observer.  The black metal that I listen to is some Darkthrone (because of the similarity to Hellhammer) or early Immortal, perhaps because it sounds like novelty music.  But I hate almost all black metal that has the screechy high-pitched vocals.  I keep asking myself why a man would want to sound like a bitch (and for those of you who are going to make King Diamond jokes, falsetto is different, so fuck you).  Otherwise, the black metal in my collection is hybrid stuff. 

I may drop all American bands from the new edit - which means no Grom, no Acheron, no Summon.  But if I can get a re-interview with Possessed, that will be the only exception.  Part of me wants to keep them in, because I do address the idea that black metal was invented by Norwegians, and then the rest of the world copied it (and Americans are copycats).  I kind of wanted a copycat to react to that assertion.  It's not really necessary for an American to talk about anything else because Americans didn't shape that music - they just saw how popular it was becoming and they copied it.  (The Americans who had a strong self-identity stayed in death metal, ha ha).

Of course, I can't say these things in the documentary.  If the artists say it, they must do so without me "leading" them.  That's one of the great things about me going to Norway - it's not going to be a rushed interview process.  I'll be staying there a week and taping hours upon hours of footage.

As for Mortiis, his relevance, other than being very interesting, is that he pertains to the part of the documentary that is about people who leave the scene, or who change.   (I am interviewing Ulver for that reason as well - I can announce that now, by the way).  Closely related to that are the bands who use maybe a part of the black metal style to form hybrids - and that is why I am interviewing Finntroll.

What I liked about Grom was the brutality of the statements, but from what I have been learning about NSBM also teaches me that American NSBM should be called NSBS (bullshit).  I've been learning that the scene is massively underdeveloped - so much so that it is hardly viable.  The documentary could best use the 90 minutes or so on subjects that actually matter.  Another problem with using Grom is, they would be the only such band in the documentart, which is a poor representation, especially when you factor in that they are American (copycats).  Another problem with them being American is that America is a free country.  The European bands that are NSBM can get into trouble for what they do (their shows, their lyrics, etc).  America has free speech.  Those other countries punitively restrict certain speech, or whatever.  So it would make sense to interview one of the overseas bands (trying to get Masters Hammer), but it's pointless to interview an American band (or should I say, an American NSBM band).  And as for brutality, I am sure I will get plenty of that when I interview the Norwegians in-depth. 

What I have heard about NSBM is interesting, but I don't like people who follow a creed.  Why?  Because "creed" impiles "righteousness" and self-righteous people do not see their own contradictions.  For example, one NSBM person declared that white people should always conduct themselves with virtue, yet the person has acted without virtue MANY times in my experience with him.  Someone like that is exactly the same as a christian.  He knows the rules that YOU should follow, but he feels that he does not have to follow them (he just has to point out when you fail to follow them).  I am also confused by the large amount of Jews who not only love NSBM, but who PLAY in those kinds of bands (there is a local band that has, or had, a jewish drummer).  I don't know if it's just a matter of wanting to belong to something that is perceived as cool, but it's kind of stupid, don't you think?  But anyway, to be a reputable documentary movie maker I cannot have just one person represent a population, especially when that population is largely overseas.

Primordial is another band that might not make it to the next stage.  Some people have argued that Primordial is not black metal, but the singer who was interviewed swears that there is no "sonic definitionon" of what black metal is.  (I totally disagree.  When I hear a song, I say, "That's gay black metal!  But again, this is not a documentary about MY opinions).  Alain seems to think that the old days of tape-trading, and mailing other metalheads all over the world (and spreading flyers) was a black metal phenomenon.  When I did it,. it was a death metal phenomenon, and there was no such thing as black metal back then, other than an album by Venom.  Still, a documentary shouldn't have everyone saying the same things.  It's good to have conflicting views.  That's one of the reasons why Cronos is good for the documentary.  As one Norwegian put it, "He says things that nobody else agrees with." 

Another reason why I want to put DIFFERENT (maybe even OPPOSING) viewpoints together is so that the viewer is forced to THINK.  The documentary shouldn't CONVINCE - it should present the data, and the viewer must then get deeper into it, independently (also going to other sourcers - sources other than the documentary).  So the documentary cannot force anyone to make ONE conclusion - the possibilities must be MANY, otherwise the DVD is propaganda and therefore unscientific.
 9/19/2007 8:48:09 PM
Jewsef Mengele
105 posts
5th


Re: POLL -Black Metal re-edit

I agree, NSBM is silly. (Especially in the U.S.)  But that Grom guy provoked some heated discussion didn't he? 

 One of my favorite parts in the original documentary was when one of the guys (don't remember who) wrote off NSBM as a shock tactic. He said something like (and I'm paraphrasing at best) "they can say it's about culture and national pride, but it really means this.."[ Gives the finger to the camera.] 

I guess examining NSBM  as a style of Black Metal would mean you would have to cover the other weird sects of the genre like Christian Black Metal HAHAHA.  It's funny you mention jews that like NSBM ( I geuss it's the same frame of mind wiggers get into when they pretend to be black.)  because I just got a mag from Australia and the editor had a rant on it.   He was also going apeshit over the existence of Zionist Black Metal Bands! There were all these pictures of guys with corpsepaint on waving flags with the star of David on them.  I guess you'd have to cover them too (HAHAHA) if you were going to take NSBM seriously. But, like you said, I'm sure you'll get plenty of interesting stuff from the Norwegians, as they were all latent National Socialists in the past.
 10/19/2007 1:33:54 PM
roy
44 posts


Re: POLL -Black Metal re-edit
I already wrote in the other section about dropping Arkhon Infaustus. That assholes french accent just pissed me off so goddamn much. The first time around it wasn't so bad, cause I wanted to hear what he had to say. But I watched it again just to be able to contribute to the poll, and that is my biggest problem with it. It got to the point where I would fast forward through that bastard just so I didn't have to hear him talk. His accent was gay and annoying.
 6/7/2008 2:28:43 PM
Metaloid
4 posts


Re: POLL -Black Metal re-edit

Does that Grom guy ever breathe out of his nose?  It's about as big as a lung so he should try to use it.
 8/25/2008 3:08:35 PM
Nihilist
1 posts


Re: POLL -Black Metal re-edit

Venom must be in any blackmetal documentary. they started the whole blackmetal genre. remove all the american bands, american blackmetal suck donkey dick.

 

 
 8/27/2008 1:16:57 PM
BillZebub
219 posts
4th


Re: POLL -Black Metal re-edit

Wow - I totally forgot about this thread.  I actually made a completely new documentary instead of making a re-edit.  It is "Black Metal: the Norwegian Legacy" - right now Finntroll has the DVD on their tour.  
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